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  • I'm a bit curious and concerned. I have read on Simon's page that in his relationship with Alvin, "Alvin is protective of Simon and loves him." But from the looks of it, it only applies for Alvin to Simon. I'm curious about the other way around (Simon to Alvin). Because even though I've seen many fan fiction stories of Simon ultimately loving Alvin, I am curious to see what the official canon thinks. However, according to the Nickelodeon series episode "A Room of One's Own", even though Simon and Theodore miss him being in their room, Simon was not willing to forgive Alvin.

    My biggest question related to this is if I make a fan episode where one of Alvin's mistakes costs Simon his passing grade for class, would Simon never forgive him for this action and would hate Alvin for life? Would that ever happen in canon? If not, why?

    BTW, sorry if I mentioned I am making a fan episode. I know this Wiki doesn't allow fan fiction, but I may either keep it private to myself or upload it to YouTube. Again, I will NOT be uploading it to this Wiki.

    Also, I am sorry if this question has already been asked. I just wish these forums had a search function so I could search to find out if a certain quetion has already been asked.

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    • Unlike Jeanette, Simon holds grudges longer though that doesn't mean he doesn't care for Alvin or would hate him for it (we see some of that in Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel too). Simon sometimes stands against Alvin on principle. We see a little of Alvin manipulating Simon's grades in Held Back and is obviously caught. I don't see him ever doing so on purpose and actually getting away with it (Miss Smith would caught it as had happened because Simon doesn't get poor grades). Additionally, Alvin's caused Simon much torment over the years and as much as it happens, Simon still assists him so I don't see Simon ever fully "hating" him (if I recall correctly Simon stated he hated Alvin in an episode when he was awakened but that was more out of frustration). At the end of A Room of One's Own they resumed normal behavior. In terms of canon, I don't see the situation you mentioned occurring.

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    • DEmersonJMFM wrote:
      Additionally, Alvin's caused Simon much torment over the years and as much as it happens, Simon still assists him so I don't see Simon ever fully "hating" him.

      But to my understanding, that only applies to him assisting him with his crazy schemes in which he dislikes in the first place, but I felt as if he’s forcing himself to do it anyway.

      Also, when he said that he would not forgive Alvin in “A Room of One’s Own” the quote he said was “I feel as if I got my own life back!” That, coupled with the amount of time Alvin spent in his private room, would convince me that Simon felt as if Alvin had ruined his life and he has a secret hatred towards Alvin.

      If Simon really DOES care for Alvin and actually like him in the long run, how does he (Besides assisting him with his crazy schemes)?

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    • As Brittany also stated, the statement was pathetic and wasn't very convincing. Additionally, just as mentioned above, Simon holds grudges which would explain why they were apart so long. During their separation it was clear that Simon and Theodore missed Alvin (much more so with Theodore, and of course Alvin). Simon displayed more subtle clues, mainly facial expressions (also by looking through the photo album), within the episode.

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    • Sorry if I am being rude by building more questions on this, but this is a personal question. Why exactly does Simon care for Alvin overall? I want an answer besides "He always assists him in his crazy schemes" because Simon dislikes them.

      Again, I'm really sorry if I'm nagging you with more and more questions, but I feel as if Simon's reasons for disliking Alvin outweigh his reasons for liking and caring for him.

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    • Wanting to discuss a topic in a civilized manner isn't rude, at the very least to me. Sorry I'm not giving many examples; there's simply too much content for me to remember it all.

      While Simon doesn't agree with all of Alvin's schemes, he doesn't disagree with (or at least the intention) of a number of them. Overall, I'd say the reason is simply being family. As two strangers they probably would never be friends as they have little shared interests, but family is a powerful bond. There was an episode (can't remember the name) where Simon stuck up for Alvin, even when Alvin wasn't exactly expecting him to. Multiple other episodes exist in which Simon attempts to help with Alvin with his grades/studying.

      With Simon there aren't a large number of extremely obvious moments of Simon loving Alvin because Alvin is such an, uh irritation to Simon given Alvin's personality. The clues are smaller, but bottom-line I see the biggest reason Simon cares for Alvin is being his brother.

      If you haven't seen it we also have an affiliated external forum filled with fans that would talk in much more detail on such a subject (many of these individuals are unfortunately not active here). If I'm not providing a satisfying enough of an answer, I'd definitely recommend the visit.

      Edit: Oops, this isn't my wall (I thought it was which was why I included the last paragraph). Anyone else reading this thread, feel free to continue the conversation if you have something to add.

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    • Alvin may drive Simon crazy sometimes, but he ultimatly loves Alvin regardless.

      Kind of similar to my dad & me.... Daddy may sometimes drive me crazy with his idiotic singing and dancing at the drop of a beat, but he's my dad & I love him regardless.

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    • I write a lot of fics dealing with Alvin and Simon, and it's a really interesting dynamic. I'll try to get across my thinking, here:

      Alvin and Simon may be polar opposites, but they do both share a common trait of stubborness and pride. It's for this reason that they're constantly arguing. As you probably notice, they're most common arguments are to do with proving their own point, and neither seem to give a bar to the opposite point of veiw - which is extremely stubborn (in Simon's case it's mostly justified, but rather than solving the argument by being empathetic to Alvin's point of view, he continues to tell him he's flat-out wrong).

      Simon is a challenge-seeker, and as established, he can't seem to let go of things if they're not resolved (projects/inventions included). I feel like this is a thing connecting back to Alvin. He's almost desperate to have Alvin see the logical side of things, and he won't give up on him because A) He's family, and B) He's practically incapable of giving up.

      Basically, these two re-establish a friendship when they do let go of their stubborness and pride, and are willing to see the other's perspective. That moment at the end of "Reality or Not" is a huge example of this. Once Alvin opens up and allows Simon to see his point of view, and it's a plausible explanation, Simon's able to understand in return, and they share that nice moment.

      Another example of this is in "To Serve and Protect", where you see Alvin's total lack of care to Simon's situation. Once he sees Simon is hurt, though, Alvin puts down his selfish desires to make amends, and I feel like Simon would really admire those moments because they're so rare. He knows they exist and is determined to bring them out. 

      I think the reason Simon cares about and loves Alvin is because he knows Alvin is a good person underneath the surface, and because he knows Alvin will always have his back if things go really sour. His determination to see that hidden personality is a big factor in the way he interacts with Alvin, and why he gets so frustrated when Alvin isn't making an effort to be that person.

      Sorry for the essay - I think about this a lot haha

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    • They are brothers, brothers care for each other. You can 'hate' your brother but still you have SOME love for them. Simon, however, never hated Alvin.

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    • GinEnglish96 wrote:
      I write a lot of fics dealing with Alvin and Simon, and it's a really interesting dynamic. I'll try to get across my thinking, here:

      Alvin and Simon may be polar opposites, but they do both share a common trait of 'stubborness' and pride. It's for this reason that they're constantly arguing. As you probably notice, they're most common arguments are to do with proving their own point, and neither seem to give a bar to the opposite point of veiw - which is extremely stubborn (in Simon's case it's mostly justified, but rather than solving the argument by being empathetic to Alvin's point of view, he continues to tell him he's flat-out wrong).

      Simon is a challenge-seeker, and as established, he can't seem to let go of things if they're not resolved (projects/inventions included). I feel like this is a thing connecting back to Alvin. He's almost desperate to have Alvin see the logical side of things, and he won't give up on him because A) He's family, and B) He's practically incapable of giving up.

      Finally, someone else mentions this outright! I have thought this ever since I was first introduced to the series but I never saw anyone else outright say it.



      Honestly, I wish they explored that side of Simon more often. It would be interesting to have an episode where Simon is clearly in the wrong but refuses to admit it. Even better if everyone says he's acting like Alvin which would just annoy Simon even more. Could even lead up to Simon saying some really hurtful things about Alvin, kinda like an inverted oh brother where art thou situation where Simon has to make the amends.

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    • Jdm5544 wrote:
      GinEnglish96 wrote:
      I write a lot of fics dealing with Alvin and Simon, and it's a really interesting dynamic. I'll try to get across my thinking, here:

      Alvin and Simon may be polar opposites, but they do both share a common trait of 'stubborness' and pride. It's for this reason that they're constantly arguing. As you probably notice, they're most common arguments are to do with proving their own point, and neither seem to give a bar to the opposite point of veiw - which is extremely stubborn (in Simon's case it's mostly justified, but rather than solving the argument by being empathetic to Alvin's point of view, he continues to tell him he's flat-out wrong).

      Simon is a challenge-seeker, and as established, he can't seem to let go of things if they're not resolved (projects/inventions included). I feel like this is a thing connecting back to Alvin. He's almost desperate to have Alvin see the logical side of things, and he won't give up on him because A) He's family, and B) He's practically incapable of giving up.

      Finally, someone else mentions this outright! I have thought this ever since I was first introduced to the series but I never saw anyone else outright say it.


      Honestly, I wish they explored that side of Simon more often. It would be interesting to have an episode where Simon is clearly in the wrong but refuses to admit it. Even better if everyone says he's acting like Alvin which would just annoy Simon even more. Could even lead up to Simon saying some really hurtful things about Alvin, kinda like an inverted oh brother where art thou situation where Simon has to make the amends.

      Absolutely funny you mention that! Because I have made an audio short detailing just that (mostly in response to the episode "Opposites Attract" where they do not give any reasons why Simon loves Alvin, and the two constantly fight each other throughout)! I came up with its outcome courtesy of advice from AATC Forum member Chipmunkedgirl, and I believe I may have nailed it, but I still think there may be some inaccuracies here and there...

      https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Autliq__RHZ69ER4E3w7-YWAc8u17Tox

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    • Jdm5544 wrote:

      Finally, someone else mentions this outright! I have thought this ever since I was first introduced to the series but I never saw anyone else outright say it.



      Honestly, I wish they explored that side of Simon more often. It would be interesting to have an episode where Simon is clearly in the wrong but refuses to admit it. Even better if everyone says he's acting like Alvin which would just annoy Simon even more. Could even lead up to Simon saying some really hurtful things about Alvin, kinda like an inverted oh brother where art thou situation where Simon has to make the amends.

      I absolutely agree! Lately I've been noticing more and more that sometimes Simon does some pretty questionable things in relation to literally making Alvin look bad.

      I'm starting to think we're conditioned to hate Alvin because of Simon XD Like in the 80's episode Dr Simon and Mr Heartthrob he actively and knowingly tries to ruin Alvin's chances at winning the Heartthrob trophy, simply because he couldn't win Chemist of the Year. Like Simon wot? Pretty sure that competition meant a lot to Alvin. Not to mention in No Chipmunk is an Island he's all gleeful over the idea of creating ink made out of super-glue so no one can put a book down, and made robot slaves in the image of his brothers. Isn't that kinda evil? XD


      I love Simon, he's an absolute gem of a character with so many levels. But yesss, the shows never really explore his stubborn, prideful traits, and I wish they would because it could really lead to some good ol' character development.

      I think maybe another reason he can dislike and love Alvin is because he recognises those traits in his brother too.

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    • GinEnglish96, you have a very good analysis. For me, that is one of the most complex and intriguing dynamics in the franchise. As for you saying that they are polar opposites, that is wrong on many levels. Polar opposite refers to personality, not hobbies. Yes, they have opposite hobbies, but polar opposite often refers to a foil, not conflicting characters. So, Alvin and Theodore are polar opposites because they are also a foil. When you said pride, I think you meant sense of self-image, that they both care what others think about them. Pride is feeling satisfied socially because of doing something, to the extreme. I would say that Simon does feel some satisfaction from accomplishing something with his projects or inventions, but it lacks the social element, and so is not pride. It seems to be more personal or intellectual satisfaction. Alvin, if he wins a sporting event, seems to be very socially satisfied with his actions, so that is pride. The two also are very persistent (a more specific form of stubbornness) in getting what they desire, and will overcome obstacles to do so.

      No one takes a position of responsibility within the family willingly. It is clear that Simon has an idea of what he would rather be doing, and what relations he wants with his brothers and surrogate father. Seeing it first hand as a youngest child and later acting as the authority figure (eldest child) elsewhere, I can tell you that the motivation is more reluctant, and has to do with everyday sibling relationships. It's not I'll do this willingly. It's more like, Fine, no one is doing this and it's annoying me, so I will.

      I can see this from both Alvin and Simon's perspectives. In personality, I am very similar to Simon now, and was as a teenager (due to forced maturity). Like him, I need to resolve issues and seek intellectual challenges. In addition, my emotions didn't catch up in forced maturity, so I keep everything inside. As a kid (and like any other kid) I didn't take no for an answer, constantly mistreating my siblings emotionally. I took personal relationships for granted. So, I can understand how they are both thinking.

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    • I think it's that they live together as a family and do some activities in common (more so in the CG series), a familial bond. I have experienced this phenomenon first hand. What is so interesting is that Simon's relationship with Alvin is both as a surrogate father and a brother. I also have a brother who is close in age, and who also had that type of relationship with me when we were young. Asa fan, I have been interested in dynamics from a young age, so please excuse my long entry.

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